Yelp "Talk"

http://www.yelp.com/topic/seattle-is-there-another-site-besides-yelp-where-one-can-write-reviews-of-businesses-and-other-organizations


4/17/12

Lily "The Rebel" H. says:
Is there another site besides Yelp you know of where one can write reviews of businesses and other
organizations?

Elite '12
 Michael "Snarky and Aloof" K. says:
Angie's List - you have to pay to do it though


Elite '12
Corinne "Rinney" K. says:
City search


Elite '12
Corinne "Rinney" K. says:
Google has reviews too


Elite '12
Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
What sorts of organizations?


Elite '12
Kate "Sweetwater" S. says:
Start a blog


Lily "The Rebel" H. says:
Someone's making money--perhaps A LOT--off our backs.  We are the writers who keep it going from day to day.  Yelp needs a competitor.  Its censorship/filtering/removal worries me.  Have no idea what perks
Yelp elites get, but I bet it isn't that much.

Who are the stockholders of Yelp?   How much does the CEO make?

Elite '12
Kate "Sweetwater" S. says:

There are plenty competitors -- as already mentioned Google, CitySearch, UbranSpoon, etc all have
similar review models. Yelp obviously does it better -- especially when it comes to the community
aspect.

Ask any Elite and yeah, we'd agree with you. They are partially running their company based off our
reviews -- so what? We came into this knowing that fact.
Your reviews are getting removed because they do not comply with the Terms of Service. Which hey, guess
what? Every website has. This isn't a North Korean regime like you imply

Elite '12
Tom "King of the Gravy Stain" B. says:
Yeah, if you run the blog, you control the ad revenue stream.


Elite '12
Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
@Lily: You seem to be stuck on a particular narrative, I agree that a blog would be much more suited to
shoehorning your strong opinions on black-on-white violence and affirmative action into the guise of a
"review".

Elite '12
Kristin C. says:
Nobody is making you write on Yelp.
+1 to Terms of Service. They are pretty straight forward, and since Yelp is basically self-monitored by
Elites and other Users, you can get away with a lot more than you can at other websites. Believe me, I
do it for a living.


Elite '12
Jeff "Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow" G. says:
Yelp doesn't conscript users. This an all volunteer army. If someone objects to their reviews being
used without compensation then this is the wrong place to be reviewing.

Elite '12
Kate "Sweetwater" S. says:
*waves at Kristin*
I work with her, we know what we are talking about when it comes to TOS
& +1 Chris * Jeff


Elite '12
Corinna "Apostrophes" K. says:
Yeah, re-reviewing the same places over and over again just to add irrelevant racist and paranoid
tantrums isn't exactly what Yelp's all about.


Elite '12
 Jeff "Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow" G. says:
I just read a bunch of your rants(reviews). You definitely need a blog. The way you shoehorn your
agendas into reviews is very awkward.

Elite '12
Kristin C. says:
She does have a blog. It just happens to be all of the reviews Yelp removed.

http://lilliansblog-d....


Elite '12
14 hours ago George G. says:
I like that word - shoehorn.
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Elite '12
Jeff "Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow" G. says:
Interesting blog...She should be paying Yelp a royalty since they own the content of her removed
reviews.

Elite '12
Joshua B. says:
It would be nice to be able to download all my reviews... not for posting somewhere else, but as an
archive. The same way both Facebook and Google now allow you to download all the content you've posted on those sites.

Elite '12
Corinna "Apostrophes" K. says:
Five years of Metro review updates is just a touch fanatical.

Elite '12
Corinna "Apostrophes" K. says:
And sweet god that Stranger review is vile.


Elite '12
Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
Sites built around user-generated content are all "curated" to some extent.


Elite '12
"Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow" G. says:
I remember flaging the Stranger review.

Elite '12
Isy "Nines" E. says:
Huhhhhh.... why do I feel so creeped out reading these reviews?
Renaming Queen Anne to Queen Latifah? What exactly....? I can't even formulate a response to the
question.


Elite '12
Jen "Honey Badger" B. says:
I...uh...Think you have issues with being white and are allowing yourself to become a racist, bigot who
is off her fucking rocker. Take your meds or whatever you need to do to stop blaming other people for
your insecurities.

Elite '12
Riss "CheekyMonkey™" J. says:
To answer your actual question, Lily. I think a blog is the best outlet for you to share your views and
write articles, stories or opinions.
Though those other sites mentioned are review sites, they will all have terms of service and be
generally constructed in a set format of the actual experience of the visited business or service, and
not a very easy outlet when you have social/political/etc passions and opinions you are trying to
share.

For the rest of the thread, I don't disagree with any of ya'll, but the number of jerk-ish comments
don't bode well for anyone here. It's pretty obvious what folks think of the reviews, the threads and
opinions of this poster. Do we really need to beat it down word for word thread for thread and also
drag in her separate blog to add fuel to it?

Whatever happened to "If you don't like it, ignore it?"

Elite '12
Corinna "Apostrophes" K. says:
You can't blame us for wanting a more lively conversation, I assume we're all wildly bored at work.


Elite '12
Shalan "I say, does 'anal-retentive' have a hyphen?" G. says:
I have to agree with the majority here - if you want uncensored outlet for your views and opinions,
your blog is your best bet. My thoughts are that you would be violating a lot of TOS if you choose to
publish your particular chain of thoughts on sites that you don't own.

Having said that, I am sure that Blogger has a TOS too.


Elite '12
Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
@Shalan: http://support.google....


Elite '12
Jen "Honey Badger" B. says:
Yes, I've been in meetings and entering in strings of codes and reading technical documents. I have to
take it out somehow. And when people so bluntly put it out there, they ask for it. I'm not here to be
nice all the time. I tell the truth as I see it.


Elite '12
 Riss "CheekyMonkey™" J. says:
I didn't say be "nice". :P

But I'm not bored at work, so that's probably my problem. ;)

Elite '12
Shalan "I say, does 'anal-retentive' have a hyphen?" G. says:
Thanks Chris - I...uh...Think you have issues with being white and are allowing yourself to become a
racist, bigot who is off her fucking rocker. Take your meds or whatever you need to do to stop blaming
other people for your insecurities.

Elite '12
Nancy H. says:
Sorry, I have no empathy for a racist.

Lily "The Rebel" H. says:
Riss, Thank you for your kind remarks.   I hadn't realized that Seattle was so conformist and intolerant of
certain minority views (and overly tolerant of others) until quite recently.  That said, I am still not
sure what TOS I have violated in my recent reviews.   I am also surprised that people take parody and
satire so literally, as in "auto-da-fe" or "why (some) white men are attracted to Asian women."

Anyway, I do realize now that it is local Elites who police (woops, wrong word, I meant "monitor") the
site for offending reviews.  I acknowledge a certain doggedness in writing updates ("blowing steam")
for certain businesses, I thought, commensurate with the indignation and irritation I feel dealing with
("having contact with") those same businesses.

I had thought there was a "live and let live" esprit here but I was mistaken.  There are many people, I
realize now, who take pleasure in beating down (and ridiculing) other people whose opinions sharply
diverge from their own.  I learned something from this thread.

Again, thank you for principled stance defending civility and tolerance.     -L.

Elite '12
Jim "The 2nd Most Interesting Man in the World" P. says:
What?


Elite '12
Corinna "Apostrophes" K. says:
Because if you're going for parody or satire you need to make it completely clear that it's parody or
satire. If everyone reads it as racism, you're doing it wrong. We're just interpreting what you write.

Elite '12
Corinna "Apostrophes" K. says:
You can't just throw around slurs and expect it to count as satire. That's not how it works.

Elite '12
11 hours ago Kate "Sweetwater" S. says:
""Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice."
Being open minded and "tolerant" doesn't mean one turns a blind eye to bigotry. Not all minority ideas
are equal, let alone socially acceptable or right...

Elite '12
Jen "Honey Badger" B. says:
I don't think you all understand, SHE's the minority here being treated unfairly. She's clueless and
playing the victim card. I do take pleasure in showing people how stupid they are. And if you think
you've been "beaten down" with words, grow the fuck up and look what you write.


Elite '12
Shalan "I say, does 'anal-retentive' have a hyphen?" G. says:
Lily "The Rebel" H. says:  "Again, thank you for principled stance defending civility and tolerance.  
-L."

Uh?? I don't think you all understand, SHE's the minority here being treated unfairly. She's clueless
and playing the victim card. I do take pleasure in showing people how stupid they are. And if you think
you've been "beaten down" with words, grow the fuck up and look what you write.
Pardon me for speaking for you Riss, but that's how I took your true, but gentle admonishment.

Elite '12
Kate "Sweetwater" S. says:
Oh, I understand that she is in the minority here. Im just saying an open minded and "tolerant"
person/city/etc doesn't have to accept  every horrible idea ever just for the sake of "tolerance".
People who claim their points are validated because someone is intolerant of their intolerance are
well, a specific sort of group and still fail with their argument.

Lily "The Rebel" H. says:
What?   When the parody is of The Stranger, which to me is racist and throws out epithets like "ass---
-" or "fascist" like freebies at a carnival and is continually  disrespectful of persons or views it
disagrees with?  Using words like "honky," "whitey," and "Chinaman" is deeply offensive.

I don't think I am more or less bigoted than anyone else on this site.

When people call me racist--a deeply personally hurtful word for me--, I am perplexed:  how can I, a
person of color, be a racist?  I who have been beaten up several times, endured slurs, and treated as a second-class citizen?

What do you personally know of racism, those who use the term so liberally?   Did anyone of you
personally live through the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King?

Is anyone NOT a racist?   Or could it be a matter of degree?

Judge not lest ye be judged...

That said, it would have been nice if some of my reviews, those with political or social content--a
minority of my reviews--had been read with a little more attention, thoughtful reflection as to what I
actually said as opposed to what you thought I must be saying, and less of a rush to judgment.

Elite '12
Marc "TwoOhSix" M. says:
Has anyone tried the new bacon croutons?

Elite '12
11 hours ago Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
Question: Are you Lily or Denny?


Elite '12
11 hours ago Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
If you can't even keep one name consistent on your account I'm not really sure anyone can trust that a
person who throws around epithets and racially inciteful language is anything you say you are.


Elite '12
Tom "King of the Gravy Stain" B. says:
I like turtles.

Elite '12
Kristin C. says:
People of minority races can still be considered "racist".
Also, thank you Chris, I couldn't remember that guys name!


Keith "He Loved to Laugh" E. says:
Relax, good people.


Elite '12
Kate "Sweetwater" S. says:
Denny didnt like the Walmarts
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Elite '12
Shalan "I say, does 'anal-retentive' have a hyphen?" G. says:
Anybody seen the butter dance - http://www.youtube.com...


Elite '12
Corinna "Apostrophes" K. says:
Lily - again, it's how we're perceiving your language. If we all agree it sounds racist, chances are it
does. Usually if a bunch of people think there's a problem it's a good bet you should examine your own
work critically.


Elite '12
Corinna "Apostrophes" K. says:
The whole "it's not me it's ALL IF YOU" stance is both lazy and delusional.

Elite '12
Corinna "Apostrophes" K. says:
*of, damnit.

Elite '12
Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
Another suggestion, you could try posting reviews at your other account http://www.insiderpage... and
if their moderation team isn't paying attention, it'll stick around for longer than we'd have the
patience for.

Lily "The Rebel" H. says:
>>  Jeff, "The way you shoehorn your agendas into reviews is very awkward." <<

You have a point, but I believe your choice of the word "agenda" is loaded in itself.  A person of
color  in the U.S. has to live every day of his or her life, so we are told, with that inescapable
fact.  When s/he picks up a newspaper...wherever s/he goes, there is the question of race lurking.  We
have a black president now.  Race makes the headlines every day.   I'm not sure how we are to avoid the
subject.  And so when I open up a newspaper and see hypocrisy in how racial questions are treated by
various government, civic, media, and other non-profit organizations, I am angry.
So I am not persuaded that I am shoehorning the subject into my reviews.  Race is there for a very good
reason: as a person of color, I am trying to hold accountable those organizations that cover the
subject or at all connected with it.

Definition of racism (Merriam-Webster):
1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial

differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination

The fact that I speak of race in my reviews does not make me a racist anymore than the fact that you do
not makes you not a racist.

I wish thank all of you for your sincerity, generosity, perspicacity, passion, and carefully reasoned
out reflections on all of the above.

Elite '12
Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
"as a person of color, I am trying to hold accountable those organizations that cover the subject or at
all connected with it."

Pull the other one, Denny. http://www.theroot.com...

Sorry, I don't have any friends of color that post over and over about violence, hate, fear directed at
minorities, then go into a tizzy over the word "cracker", tossing n-bombs at the President in the
process.

You've got issues, see a therapist. If you're looking for people to agree with your bigoted beliefs,
seek the "white pride" organizations that will fulfill your need to be accepted.

I'm still not quite sure whether you're a troll, a nutter, or some combination of the two.


Elite '12
Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
"when I open up a newspaper and see hypocrisy in how racial questions are treated by various
government, civic, media, and other non-profit organizations, I am angry."

That reflects badly on you, man. Anger is always easier than understanding.


Elite '12
Kristin C. says:
Racial prejudice or discrimination? Do you actually read your own "reviews"? Because you are describing
yourself here.


Elite '12
Michael "Snarky and Aloof" K. says:
I don't like white people. They are annoying.


Elite '12
Kristin C. says:
Well, you aren't wrong MK.
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Elite '12
8 hours ago Clover "Do Not Hunger Yourself" A. says:
I am about to flag the thread but hope that those Yelp peeps above that I consider to be smart and
somewhat of a friend of mine will consider this: let's just ignore these type of threads. It can't grow
without ire for kindling.

Elite '12
Clover "Do Not Hunger Yourself" A. says:
lastly, I urge you to remove this person from your friend list and flag her (?) profile as I have.
Don't start talking to me about racism, I don't have time for fake internet profile holders to wax
poetic about bullshit all day.

i'd prefer to answer 'what neighborhood should I move to' all day than this.


Elite '12
Jesse "Jessiquah" B. says:
I just came to check here from the PDX Yelp community. She posted the same talk thread there! Shock.
Awe. How is she still a user on Yelp?

Elite '12
Yong "The Duke of Trivialities" L. says:
Hey hey!  Why is everyone flagging my troll account?  ;)

Elite '12
8 hours ago Chris "map mange' ou sans cel" W. says:
You cad!

Lily "The Rebel" H. says
[the following was censored by Yelp while the thread was still active]:

Yes, some of my reviews express great frustration, as well as anger, at the landscape of racial politics,both locally and nationally:  the violence that is a cancer within the African-American community; the hypocrisy of those who only cry "racism!" when the victim is black and the aggressor white and never the other way around; the cowardice of the media to identify the race of a person who has committed a violent crime.

As African-Americans have said, "Race is something they cannot escape, something they live 24/7."   I agree with that, as a person of color but not black.  I, too, experience and am affected by it and have no choice about it.

When certain civic, government, and media organizations do their respective jobs in a slipshod manner or are hypocritical (e.g., The Stranger--it is O.K. to use racial slurs against certain races but not others; we can be tough and even abusive towards others but  others cannot), my reviews have pointed out these things.

Contempt, as encapsulated in the phrase "stupid white men" or "Chinaman" together with resentment and frustration breeds violence.

It is obvious that some people hate my reviews.  They hate them because they strongly disagree with them.  But the hate they speak of is not to be found in my reviews.  It is their own hate, and I think they should "own" it rather than project their own hatred onto me.

This is especially the case as I have personally experienced racial violence repeatedly.  As a child I was punched and kicked by groups of young African-Americans--for no other reason than that I was not black.  Please do not lecture me on racism because you know very little of it except for the dogmas and prejudices that you so blindly accept.

This thread has so many similarities to what I experienced being pounced upon while waiting for the bus in front of Ezell's Fried Chicken and savagely beaten.  I was crawling on the sidewalk, the fists came coming down on me like rain.

When I said to one in the group, "You are racist [for beating me]," he only beat me harder.

Yes, some of you are doing the same thing to me all over again, except with words.

It still hurts but this time I am speaking out instead of remaining silent.

Those who call other people "racist bigots" are often the most bigoted of all.


[At this point Yelp closed the thread and removed my last comment.  At least two comments by Yelp "elites" have disappeared from this thread, one in which the author makes reference to 'nailing from trees' either me, my reviews, or both.   Only Yelp "elites," apparently, get to edit or delete their comments in a Talk thread or to remove a thread in its entirety

In hindsight, it is evident to me who and what these people idolize and imitate].